CO129-249 - Governor Des Voeus Acting Governor Barker - 1891 [1-5] — Page 592

CO129 Colonial Office Hong Kong Records 理藩院香港檔案 All AI Reviewed

Enclosure 2

Hongkong, April 14th, 1891.

His Excellency the Governor.

Sir,-With reference to the debate in the Legislative Council of Hongkong on the 10th instant on the motion by the Honourable T. H. Whitehead that "in consequence of the enhanced military contribution still demanded by the Imperial Government, this Colony is not in a position to pay the increased salaries recently recommended by the unofficial members, and that the Secretary of State be requested by telegram to withhold his sanction," we, the undersigned unofficial members, beg to inform your Excellency that they propose to memorialise the Secretary of State on the subject to urge the withholding of His Lordship's sanction to the proposed increase of salaries, and that the memorial is in course of preparation.

We have therefore to request your Excellency to notify the Secretary of State of this our intention, and to ask His Lordship by telegram to withhold his sanction pending receipt of our memorial.

We have the honour to be, Sir, your Excellency's most obedient humble servants,

(Signed) P. RYRIE,

J. J. KESWICK. Ho KAI

T. H. WHITEHEAD

Colonial Secretary's Office, 15th April, 1891.

Gentlemen,I have the honour, by direction of the Governor, to acknowledge His Excellency's receipt of a letter dated 14th April, 1891, and written by you as representing the unofficial members of the Legislative Council now present in the Colony, with reference to a recent motion in Council to the effect that the Colony is not now in a position to pay the increased salaries recently recommended by unofficial members.

2.-The signatories of this letter inform the Governor that it is their intention to memorialise the Secretary of State on the subject, and request that this intention may be notified to the Right Honourable the Secretary of State for the Colonies by telegram. His Excellency has directed me to state in reply that he hopes in the course of a few days to be able to make known the course which he proposes to take after giving this important subject his full consideration.

I have the honour to be, gentlemen, your most obedient servant,

(Signed) W. M. DEANE.

Acting Colonial Secretary.

Hongkong, 20th April, 1891.

His Excellency the Governor.

Dear Sir,-Referring to the debate in Council on 10th instant on the motion of the Honourable T. H. Whitehead, the unofficial members wrote to your Excellency on 14th idem intimating that they propose to memorialize the Secretary of State on the subject of the increase of official salaries recently recommended by them, and asked your Excellency to telegraph to the Secretary of State requesting his Lordship to withhold his sanction pending receipt of their memorial.

The unofficial members would be glad to know if your Excellency has so telegraphed, because if not they propose doing so themselves.

I am, dear Sir, your Excellency's most obedient humble servant,

(Signed) P. RYRIE:

Colonial Secretary's Office, 21st April, 1891.

Sir,

The Governor has received your letter of yesterday in which you enquire on behalf of the unofficial members of Council whether His Excellency has telegraphed to the Secretary of State with reference to the recent increase of official salaries in accordance with the request contained in their letter of the 14th instant, and you at the same time inform His Excellency that if he has not telegraphed the unofficial members propose doing so themselves.

In reply I am directed to state that His Excellency has not so telegraphed and does not propose to do so.

His Excellency had hoped before now to have stated the reasons for his course in Council, but as owing to various causes there may yet be a delay of some days, he deems it well to say for the information of the unofficial members whom you represent that those reasons are in substance as follows:-

1.-Because from a despatch already received from the Secretary of State it may be expected that his decision on the subject of salaries will arrive by the next English mail, so that any telegraphic measure of the kind would be too late;

2.-Because His Excellency considers that the unanimous decision of the Council as regards salaries is binding upon it and upon all its members as regards this year, and that he does not feel justified in taking any part in what he cannot but regard as something very nearly allied to a breach of contract with the officers concerned.

When the unofficial members hear his reasons in Council His Excellency is not without hope that they also will share this view, and will postpone any recommendation for the reduction of the salaries already voted until the estimates for next year are under consideration, by which time it will be possible to take a calmer and more complete view of the situation.

I have the honour to be, Sir, your most obedient servant,

(Signed) W. M. DEANE.

Acting Colonial Secretary.

The Hon. P. Ryrie.

Hongkong, 24th April, 1891.

His Excellency the Governor, Sir William Des Voeux, K.C.M.G.

Sir,

The unofficial members of Council have the honour to acknowledge receipt from the Acting Colonial Secretary of a letter, dated the 21st instant, in which in reply to theirs of the 14th instant they are informed, by direction of your Excellency, that, for the reasons there given, you have not seen fit to comply with their request to telegraph to the Secretary of State to withhold temporarily and until he can be memorialized his approval of the proposed increase of official salaries in the Colony.

The unofficial members regret extremely that your Excellency should, apparently without any sufficient reason, have delayed your reply to their communication for a week, and should have, again without reason assigned, refrained from holding any meetings of Council for so long an interval. They regret this the more as your Excellency's approaching departure will evidently prevent the possibility of the discussion in Council of any statement you may be preparing on the subject now under consideration.

It was very unfortunate that your Excellency was unable to be present at and take part in the last debate in Council on the subject of official salaries, and on the financial position of the colony generally, and that, if there is any adequate reply to the arguments put forward by Mr. Keswick, Mr. Whitehead, and the unofficial members generally, they were not then put before the Council in any comprehensible shape.

The unofficial members hope that your Excellency will arrange for at least two meetings of Council to be held before your departure for the discussion you have so often invited of the position and prospects of the colony and its resources.

As your Excellency has refused to wire the Secretary of State, the unofficial members have done so themselves in the following terms:

"Unofficial members Council dissatisfied with financial position and prospects; request postpone increase salaries; further consideration required; preparing Memorial. Governor declines forward telegram."

They have now formally to request your Excellency, in the event of a despatch being received from the Secretary of State authorizing payment within this financial year of the increased salaries, to suspend its operation until the Memorial they are now preparing, your Excellency's views on the subject about to be submitted to Council, and the consequent debate be submitted to and considered by him.

The unofficial members are still very decidedly of opinion that the financial position and prospects of the Colony is not such as to render it prudent to grant just at present the very large increase of salaries now proposed. They can hardly think that your Excellency speaks seriously when you propose to let the enhanced amounts be paid this year as they have been voted, and to consider the advisability of an equally large reduction when the estimates for next year are laid on the table. That, as your Excellency well knows, is practically an impossibility. An increase of salaries once voted and paid must stand. To act as you propose would

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Enclosure 2 Hongkong, April 14th, 1891. His Excellency the Governor. Sir,-With reference to the debate in the Legislative Council of Hongkong on the 10th instant on the motion by the Honourable T. H. Whitehead that "in consequence of the enhanced military contribution still demanded by the Imperial Government, this Colony is not in a position to pay the increased salaries recently recommended by the unofficial members, and that the Secretary of State be requested by telegram to withhold his sanction," we, the undersigned unofficial members, beg to inform your Excellency that they propose to memorialise the Secretary of State on the subject to urge the withholding of His Lordship's sanction to the proposed increase of salaries, and that the memorial is in course of preparation. We have therefore to request your Excellency to notify the Secretary of State of this our intention, and to ask His Lordship by telegram to withhold his sanction pending receipt of our memorial. We have the honour to be, Sir, your Excellency's most obedient humble servants, (Signed) P. RYRIE, J. J. KESWICK. Ho KAI T. H. WHITEHEAD Colonial Secretary's Office, 15th April, 1891. Gentlemen,I have the honour, by direction of the Governor, to acknowledge His Excellency's receipt of a letter dated 14th April, 1891, and written by you as representing the unofficial members of the Legislative Council now present in the Colony, with reference to a recent motion in Council to the effect that the Colony is not now in a position to pay the increased salaries recently recommended by unofficial members. 2.-The signatories of this letter inform the Governor that it is their intention to memorialise the Secretary of State on the subject, and request that this intention may be notified to the Right Honourable the Secretary of State for the Colonies by telegram. His Excellency has directed me to state in reply that he hopes in the course of a few days to be able to make known the course which he proposes to take after giving this important subject his full consideration. I have the honour to be, gentlemen, your most obedient servant, (Signed) W. M. DEANE. Acting Colonial Secretary. Hongkong, 20th April, 1891. His Excellency the Governor. Dear Sir,-Referring to the debate in Council on 10th instant on the motion of the Honourable T. H. Whitehead, the unofficial members wrote to your Excellency on 14th idem intimating that they propose to memorialize the Secretary of State on the subject of the increase of official salaries recently recommended by them, and asked your Excellency to telegraph to the Secretary of State requesting his Lordship to withhold his sanction pending receipt of their memorial. The unofficial members would be glad to know if your Excellency has so telegraphed, because if not they propose doing so themselves. I am, dear Sir, your Excellency's most obedient humble servant, (Signed) P. RYRIE: Colonial Secretary's Office, 21st April, 1891. Sir, The Governor has received your letter of yesterday in which you enquire on behalf of the unofficial members of Council whether His Excellency has telegraphed to the Secretary of State with reference to the recent increase of official salaries in accordance with the request contained in their letter of the 14th instant, and you at the same time inform His Excellency that if he has not telegraphed the unofficial members propose doing so themselves. In reply I am directed to state that His Excellency has not so telegraphed and does not propose to do so. His Excellency had hoped before now to have stated the reasons for his course in Council, but as owing to various causes there may yet be a delay of some days, he deems it well to say for the information of the unofficial members whom you represent that those reasons are in substance as follows:- 1.-Because from a despatch already received from the Secretary of State it may be expected that his decision on the subject of salaries will arrive by the next English mail, so that any telegraphic measure of the kind would be too late; 2.-Because His Excellency considers that the unanimous decision of the Council as regards salaries is binding upon it and upon all its members as regards this year, and that he does not feel justified in taking any part in what he cannot but regard as something very nearly allied to a breach of contract with the officers concerned. When the unofficial members hear his reasons in Council His Excellency is not without hope that they also will share this view, and will postpone any recommendation for the reduction of the salaries already voted until the estimates for next year are under consideration, by which time it will be possible to take a calmer and more complete view of the situation. I have the honour to be, Sir, your most obedient servant, (Signed) W. M. DEANE. Acting Colonial Secretary. The Hon. P. Ryrie. Hongkong, 24th April, 1891. His Excellency the Governor, Sir William Des Voeux, K.C.M.G. Sir, The unofficial members of Council have the honour to acknowledge receipt from the Acting Colonial Secretary of a letter, dated the 21st instant, in which in reply to theirs of the 14th instant they are informed, by direction of your Excellency, that, for the reasons there given, you have not seen fit to comply with their request to telegraph to the Secretary of State to withhold temporarily and until he can be memorialized his approval of the proposed increase of official salaries in the Colony. The unofficial members regret extremely that your Excellency should, apparently without any sufficient reason, have delayed your reply to their communication for a week, and should have, again without reason assigned, refrained from holding any meetings of Council for so long an interval. They regret this the more as your Excellency's approaching departure will evidently prevent the possibility of the discussion in Council of any statement you may be preparing on the subject now under consideration. It was very unfortunate that your Excellency was unable to be present at and take part in the last debate in Council on the subject of official salaries, and on the financial position of the colony generally, and that, if there is any adequate reply to the arguments put forward by Mr. Keswick, Mr. Whitehead, and the unofficial members generally, they were not then put before the Council in any comprehensible shape. The unofficial members hope that your Excellency will arrange for at least two meetings of Council to be held before your departure for the discussion you have so often invited of the position and prospects of the colony and its resources. As your Excellency has refused to wire the Secretary of State, the unofficial members have done so themselves in the following terms: "Unofficial members Council dissatisfied with financial position and prospects; request postpone increase salaries; further consideration required; preparing Memorial. Governor declines forward telegram." They have now formally to request your Excellency, in the event of a despatch being received from the Secretary of State authorizing payment within this financial year of the increased salaries, to suspend its operation until the Memorial they are now preparing, your Excellency's views on the subject about to be submitted to Council, and the consequent debate be submitted to and considered by him. The unofficial members are still very decidedly of opinion that the financial position and prospects of the Colony is not such as to render it prudent to grant just at present the very large increase of salaries now proposed. They can hardly think that your Excellency speaks seriously when you propose to let the enhanced amounts be paid this year as they have been voted, and to consider the advisability of an equally large reduction when the estimates for next year are laid on the table. That, as your Excellency well knows, is practically an impossibility. An increase of salaries once voted and paid must stand. To act as you propose would Page 586
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Enclosure 2 Hongkong, April 14th, 1891. His Excellency the Governor. Sir-With roference to the debate in the Legislative Council of Hongkong on the 10th instant on the motion by the Honourable T. H. Whitehead that "in consequence of the enhanced military contribution still demanded by the Im- perial Government, this Colony is not in a posi tion to pay the increased salaries recently re commended by the unofficial members, and that the Secretary of State be requested by telegram to withhold his sanation," we, the undersigned. naofficial members, beg to inform your Excellency that they propose to memorialise the Secretary of State on the subject to urge the withholding of His Lordship's sanction to the proposed in- crease of salaries, and that the memorial is in course of preparation. We have how therefore to request your Ex- cellency to notify the Secretary of State of this our intention, and to ask His Lordship by tele- graph to withhold his sanction pending receipt of car memorial. We have the honour to be, Sir, vonr Excel- lency's most obedient humble servants, (Signed) P. RYRIE, J. J. KH8WICK. Ho KAL T. H. WHITEHEAD Colonial Secretary's Office, 15th April, 1891. Gentlemon,I have the honour, by direction. of the Governor, to acknowledge His Excellency's receipt of a letter dated 14th April. 1891, and written by you as representing the unofficial members of the Legislative Council now present in the Colony, with reference to a recent motion in Council to the effect that the Colony is not now in a position to pay the increased salaries recently recommended by unofficial metabers. 2.-The signatories of this letter inform the Governor that it is their intention to memorialise the Secretary of State on the subject, and re- quest that this intention may be notided to the Right Honourable the Scoretary of State for the Colonies by telegram. His Excellency bas directed me to state in reply that he hopes in the course of a few days to be able to make known the course which he proposes to tako after giving this important subject bis full con- sideration. I have the honour to be, gentlemen, your most obedient servant, (Signed) W. M. DEANE. Acting Colonial Secretary. Hongkong, 20th April, 1891. His Excellency the Governor. Dear Sir,-Referring to the debate in Coun- eil on 10th instant on the motion of the Honour. able T. H. Whitehead, the unofficial members wrote to your Excellency on 14th idem intimat- ing that they propose to memorialize the Secre- tary of State on the subject of the increase of official salaries recently recommended by them, and asked your Excellency to telegraph to the Secretary of State requesting his Lordship to withhold his sunction pending receipt of their memorial. The unofficial members would be glad to know if your Excellency has so telegraphed, because if not they propose doing so themselves. I am, dear Sir, your Excellency's most obedi- ent humble servant, (Ed.) P. RYCIE: Colonial Secretary's Offloo, 21st April, 1891. Sir, The Governor has received your letter of yesterday in which you enquire ou behalf of the unofficial members of Council whether His Excellency has telegraphed to the Secretary of State with reference to the recout increase of official salaries in accordance with the request contained in their letter of the 14th instant, and you at the same time inform His Excellency that if he has not telegraphed the unofficial members propose doing so themselves, In reply I am directed to state that His Ex- cellency bas not so telegraphed and does not propose to do so. His Excellency had hoped before now to have stated the reasons for his course in Council, bat as owing to various causes there may yet be a delay of some days, he deems it well to say for the information of the unofficial members whom you represent that those reasons are in substance as follows:- 1. 1.- Because from a despatch already received from the Secretary of State it may be expected that his decision on the subject of salaries will arrive by the next English mail, so that any tele- graphic measure of the kind would be too late; and 2.--Bocause His Excellency considers that the unanimous decision of the Council as regards salaries is binding upou it and upon all its main- bars as regards this year, and that he does not foel justified in taking any part in what he can- not but regard as something very nearly allied to a breach of contract with the officers con- verned. When the unofficial members hoar his rea- sons in Council His Excellency is not without hope that they also will share this view, and will postpone any recommendation for the reduction of the salaries already voted until the estimates for next year are under considera- tion, by which time it will be possible to take a calmer and more complete view of the situation. I have the honour to be, Sir, y our most obedient servant, (Signed) W. M. DEANE. Acting Colonial Secretary. The Hon. P. Ryrie. Hongkong, 24th April, 1891. His Excellency the Governor, Sir Williant Des Vonx, K.C.M.G. Sir, The unofficial metubers of Council have the honour to acknowledge receipt from the Acting Colonial Socretary of a letter, dated the 21st instant, in which in reply to theirs of the 14th instant they are informed, by direction of your Excellency, that, for the reasons there given, you have not seen fit to comply with their request to telegraph to the Secretary of State to withhold temporarily and until he can be memorialized his approval of the proposed in- crease of official salaries in the Colony. The unofficial members regret extremely that your Excellency should, apparently without any sufficient reason, have delayed your reply to their communication for a week, and should have, again without reason assigned, refrained from *holding any weetings of Council for so long an interval. They regret this the more as your Excellency's approaching departure will evident- ly prevent the possibility of the discussion in Council of any statement you may be prepar ing on the subject now under consideration. It was very unfortunate that your Excellency was unable to be present at and take part in the last debate in Council on the subject of official salaries, and on the financial position of the colony generally, and that, if there is any ade- quate reply to the arguments put forward by Mr. Keswick, Mr. Whitehead, and the unofficial members generally, they were not then put be- fore the Council in any comprehensible shape. The unofficial members hope that your Ex- cellency will arrange for at least two meetings of Connell to be held before your departure for the discussion yon have so often invited of the position and prospects of the colony and its resources. As your Excellency has refused to wire the Secretary of State, the unofficial members have done so themselves in the following terms: "Unofficial members Council dissatisfied with financial position and prospects; re- quest postpone increase salaries; further consideration required; preparing Me morial. Governor declines forward tele- gram" Bey have now formally to request your Ex- cellency, in the event of a despatch being recsiv- ed from the Secretary of State authorizing pay- ment within this financial year of the increased salarios, to suspend its operation until the Me- morial they are now preparing, your Excelleney's views on the subject about to be submitted to Council, and the consequent debate be submitted to and considered by him. The unofficial members are still very decided- ly of opinion that the financial position and prospects of the Colony is not such as to render it prudent to grant just at present the very large increase of salaries now proposed. They van hardly think that your Excellency speaks seriously when you propose to let the enhanced amounts be paid this year as they have been voted, and to consider the advisability of an equally large rednetion when the estimates for next year are laid on the tahlo. That, as your Excellency well knows, is practically an impos- sibility. An increase of salaries once voted and paid minst stand. To act as you propose would 586
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Enclosure 2

Hongkong, April 14th, 1891.

His Excellency the Governor.

Sir-With roference to the debate in the Legislative Council of Hongkong on the 10th instant on the motion by the Honourable T. H. Whitehead that "in consequence of the enhanced military contribution still demanded by the Im- perial Government, this Colony is not in a posi tion to pay the increased salaries recently re commended by the unofficial members, and that the Secretary of State be requested by telegram to withhold his sanation," we, the undersigned. naofficial members, beg to inform your Excellency that they propose to memorialise the Secretary of State on the subject to urge the withholding of His Lordship's sanction to the proposed in- crease of salaries, and that the memorial is in course of preparation.

We have how therefore to request your Ex- cellency to notify the Secretary of State of this our intention, and to ask His Lordship by tele- graph to withhold his sanction pending receipt of car memorial.

We have the honour to be, Sir, vonr Excel- lency's most obedient humble servants,

(Signed) P. RYRIE,

J. J. KH8WICK. Ho KAL

T. H. WHITEHEAD

Colonial Secretary's Office, 15th April, 1891. Gentlemon,I have the honour, by direction. of the Governor, to acknowledge His Excellency's receipt of a letter dated 14th April. 1891, and written by you as representing the unofficial members of the Legislative Council now present in the Colony, with reference to a recent motion in Council to the effect that the Colony is not now in a position to pay the increased salaries recently recommended by unofficial metabers.

2.-The signatories of this letter inform the Governor that it is their intention to memorialise the Secretary of State on the subject, and re- quest that this intention may be notided to the Right Honourable the Scoretary of State for the Colonies by telegram. His Excellency bas directed me to state in reply that he hopes in the course of a few days to be able to make known the course which he proposes to tako after giving this important subject bis full con- sideration. I have the honour to be, gentlemen, your most obedient servant,

(Signed) W. M. DEANE.

Acting Colonial Secretary. Hongkong, 20th April, 1891.

His Excellency the Governor.

Dear Sir,-Referring to the debate in Coun- eil on 10th instant on the motion of the Honour. able T. H. Whitehead, the unofficial members wrote to your Excellency on 14th idem intimat- ing that they propose to memorialize the Secre- tary of State on the subject of the increase of official salaries recently recommended by them, and asked your Excellency to telegraph to the Secretary of State requesting his Lordship to withhold his sunction pending receipt of their memorial.

The unofficial members would be glad to know if your Excellency has so telegraphed, because if not they propose doing so themselves.

I am, dear Sir, your Excellency's most obedi- ent humble servant,

(Ed.) P. RYCIE:

Colonial Secretary's Offloo, 21st April, 1891.

Sir, The Governor has received your letter of yesterday in which you enquire ou behalf of the unofficial members of Council whether His Excellency has telegraphed to the Secretary of State with reference to the recout increase of official salaries in accordance with the request contained in their letter of the 14th instant, and you at the same time inform His Excellency that if he has not telegraphed the unofficial members propose doing so themselves,

In reply I am directed to state that His Ex- cellency bas not so telegraphed and does not propose to do so.

His Excellency had hoped before now to have stated the reasons for his course in Council, bat as owing to various causes there may yet be a delay of some days, he deems it well to say for the information of the unofficial members whom you represent that those reasons are in substance as follows:-

1.

1.- Because from a despatch already received from the Secretary of State it may be expected that his decision on the subject of salaries will arrive by the next English mail, so that any tele- graphic measure of the kind would be too late; and 2.--Bocause His Excellency considers that the unanimous decision of the Council as regards salaries is binding upou it and upon all its main- bars as regards this year, and that he does not foel justified in taking any part in what he can- not but regard as something very nearly allied to a breach of contract with the officers con- verned.

When the unofficial members hoar his rea- sons in Council His Excellency is not without hope that they also will share this view, and will postpone any recommendation for the reduction of the salaries already voted until the estimates for next year are under considera- tion, by which time it will be possible to take a calmer and more complete view of the situation. I have the honour to be, Sir, y our most obedient servant,

(Signed) W. M. DEANE.

Acting Colonial Secretary.

The Hon. P. Ryrie.

Hongkong, 24th April, 1891. His Excellency the Governor, Sir Williant Des

Vonx, K.C.M.G.

Sir, The unofficial metubers of Council have the honour to acknowledge receipt from the Acting Colonial Socretary of a letter, dated the 21st instant, in which in reply to theirs of the 14th instant they are informed, by direction of your Excellency, that, for the reasons there given, you have not seen fit to comply with their request to telegraph to the Secretary of State to withhold temporarily and until he can be memorialized his approval of the proposed in- crease of official salaries in the Colony.

The unofficial members regret extremely that your Excellency should, apparently without any sufficient reason, have delayed your reply to their communication for a week, and should have, again without reason assigned, refrained from *holding any weetings of Council for so long an interval. They regret this the more as your Excellency's approaching departure will evident- ly prevent the possibility of the discussion in Council of any statement you may be prepar ing on the subject now under consideration.

It was very unfortunate that your Excellency was unable to be present at and take part in the last debate in Council on the subject of official salaries, and on the financial position of the colony generally, and that, if there is any ade- quate reply to the arguments put forward by Mr. Keswick, Mr. Whitehead, and the unofficial members generally, they were not then put be- fore the Council in any comprehensible shape.

The unofficial members hope that your Ex- cellency will arrange for at least two meetings of Connell to be held before your departure for the discussion yon have so often invited of the position and prospects of the colony and its

resources.

As your Excellency has refused to wire the Secretary of State, the unofficial members have done so themselves in the following terms:

"Unofficial members Council dissatisfied with financial position and prospects; re- quest postpone increase salaries; further consideration required; preparing Me morial. Governor declines forward tele- gram"

Bey have now formally to request your Ex- cellency, in the event of a despatch being recsiv- ed from the Secretary of State authorizing pay- ment within this financial year of the increased salarios, to suspend its operation until the Me- morial they are now preparing, your Excelleney's views on the subject about to be submitted to Council, and the consequent debate be submitted to and considered by him.

The unofficial members are still very decided- ly of opinion that the financial position and prospects of the Colony is not such as to render it prudent to grant just at present the very large increase of salaries now proposed. They van hardly think that your Excellency speaks seriously when you propose to let the enhanced amounts be paid this year as they have been voted, and to consider the advisability of an equally large rednetion when the estimates for next year are laid on the tahlo. That, as your Excellency well knows, is practically an impos- sibility. An increase of salaries once voted and paid minst stand. To act as you propose would

586

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